WHAT IS YOUR THEORY ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF YOGA?
K. Pattabhi Jois: We cannot know for sure the original nature of yoga, but according to what tradition tells us, Shiva first taught it to Parvati, then Parvati taught it to Shannmuka and Shannmuka taught it to Narada. And the first yoga found before the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali was when Adinatha incarnated in this world to provide yoga as a means to liberating man from the world of suffering. Also yoga is found in the shastras [scriptures], in the Bhagavad Gita, and in different Upanishads.
AND HOW IS THIS REFLECTED IN THE SCRIPTURAL, AS WELL AS IN THE LIVING, TRADITION?
Pattabhi Jois: In India, tradition is rooted in faith. Without faith, our whole tradition would collapse. And it is the greatness and wisdom of our forefathers that guides us on our path to perfection. To come to realize the depth of their knowledge and wisdom, we need to gain an experience of that to which they testify. This can be very difficult in the times we live in, but to gain this experience, we need to have faith in what they taught and a willingness to follow their methods with consistent dedication and hard work. It is not easy, but for every sadhaka [ardent seeker], there is profound spiritual wisdom to be rediscovered from our tradition. India has a great history of trying to understand the human mind and its theories of moksa [release; liberation of soul from further transmigration] are something other religious traditions cannot ignore. Some living teachers are good representatives of our great heritage, while others are less concerned with tradition, and do as they please, making up rules and regulations of their own.
HOW DOES PATANJALI’S CLASSICAL YOGA STAND IN RELATION TO HATHA YOGA?
Pattabhi Jois: Hatha yoga means the union of the opposing energies of the body and the channeling of these energies into the central pathway. And this comes about when the surya nadi [right nostril] and chandra nadi [left nostril] are controlled, and the vital energy of these two channels merges in the central pathway of the spine. So, when the prana is finally at rest and no longer moved by the various sense organs, we then realize God inside. That is our Self, our true identity. So, Hatha yoga is experiencing God inside.
WHO WERE THE ORIGINATORS OF HATHA YOGA?
Pattabhi Jois: I don’t know for certain. I only know what my guru taught me. But many texts mention the
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| Dattatreya, Guru of all Gurus |
WHAT DISTINGUISHES HATHA YOGA FROM OTHER PHYSICAL FITNESS EXERCISES?
Pattabhi Jois: [Laughs] Yoga is not physical—very wrong! Hatha yoga can, of course, be used as external exercise only, but that is not its real benefit. Yoga can go very deep and touch the soul of man. When it is performed in the right way, over a long period of time, the nervous system is purified, and so is the mind. As the Bhagavad Gita is telling us.
Yatato hyapi Kaunteyapurshasya vipashcitahindriyani pramathini haranti prasabham manahTani sarvani samyamya yukta asita matparahVase hi yasyendriyani tasya prajna pratishtita BG 2:60-61
[Controlling all the senses, the selfcontrolled one should sit meditating on Me. Verily, his wisdom is steady whose senses are under control. The turbulent senses, O son of Kunti, forcibly lead astray the mind of even the struggling wise person.]
The whole purpose of Hatha yoga is to purify and control our senses. It is the ultimate science of helping us discover what lies behind the apparent reality of body and mind. But look at the world today! There are so many different ways of doing yoga. Everybody says that they are doing it the right way, but what is the right way unless it produces a certain change in people, unless a certain energy is awakened within them? As Swatmarama is telling us, in the last verse of the Hatha Yoga Pradipika
Yavan naiva pravishati caran maruto madhyamarge Yavad bindur na bhavati drdaprana vata prabandhat |Yavad dhyane sahajasadrsham jaayate nanva tattvam Tavaj jnanam vadati tadidam dambhamithyapralapah ||HYP 4:113
[Until the prana enters and flows in the middle channel and the breath becomes firm by the control of the movements of prana; and until the mind assumes the form of Brahma without any effort in contemplation, up to then, all talk of knowledge and wisdom is merely the nonsensical babblings of a mad man.]
So, we must follow the method that is correct and practice it for a long time.
Sa tu dirgha kala nairantarya satkara sevito dridhabhumih
[A practice over a long period of time, consistently, humbly, with the best intention, becomes the firm foundation for cultivating a cessation of the fluctuations of the mind.]
This can take many lifetimes of practice—even 100,000 years!
CAN YOU DESCRIBE KRISHNAMACHARYA IN THREE WORDS?
Pattabhi Jois: A very good man, a strong character. A dangerous man.
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| T.Krishnamacharya |
WHAT DO YOU KNOW OF KRISHNAMACHARYA’S LINEAGE AND TEACHERS?
Pattabhi Jois: His teacher was Ramamohan Brahmachari, a very good man, a strong man, who taught Krishnamacharya many things. All my information comes from my guru and he told me that he studied with him for close to seven years. When he finished his studies, his teacher told him to go and teach yoga, so he left and started giving demonstrations and teaching in various places around India. That is how I met him for the first time in Hassan in 1927
HOW LONG DID YOU STUDY WITH KRISHNAMACHARYA?
Pattabhi Jois: I studied with him from 1927 to 1953. The first time I saw him was in November of 1927. It was at the Jubilee Hall in Hassan and, the next day, I found out where he lived and went to his house. He asked me many questions, but finally accepted me and told me to come back the next morning. Then, after my thread ceremony in 1930, I went to Mysore to learn Sanskrit and was accepted at the Maharaja’s Sanskrit College. There, I was reunited with Krishnamacharya in 1931, when he came to do a demonstration. He was very happy to find me studying at the college.
WHAT DID KRISHNAMACHARYA TEACH YOU?
Pattabhi Jois: What my teacher taught me is exactly the same method I am teaching today. It was an examination course of primary, intermediate, and advanced asanas. He also taught me philosophy. For five years, we studied the great texts. He would call us to his house and we would stand outside and wait to be called in. Sometimes, we would wait the whole day. He would usually teach us for one or two hours every day: asanas early in the morning and, around 12 o’clock, philosophy class. He also taught us pranayama, pratyahara [sensory withdrawal], dharana [concentration], and dhyana[meditation]. And, in addition to the Yoga Sutras and Bhagavad Gita, he also taught Yoga Vasishta, Yoga Yajnavalkya, and Samhita. And all in Sanskrit.
COULD YOU DESCRIBE KRISHNAMACHARYA’S TEACHING METHODS?
Pattabhi Jois: Very strict. If you came one minute early or one minute late, you would not be allowed into class. He demanded total discipline and was very, very tough. People were fearing him, but he had a very good heart.
DID IT EVER CHANGE?
Pattabhi Jois: I don’t know. As long as I was with him, he always taught the same.
DID KRISHNAMACHARYA TEACH EVERYBODY THE SAME WAY?
Pattabhi Jois: Yes.
WHAT WAS SO SPECIAL ABOUT KRISHNAMACHARYA?
Pattabhi Jois: He was not just a great yoga teacher, but also a great Sanskrit scholar. He had studied and completed his examination in all the six darshanas[schools of ancient Hindu philosophy]. He was known as Mimamsa Tirtha [ford across the river of human misery], Vedanta Vagisa [lord of speech], Sankhya Yoga Shikhamani [jewel among Brahmins].
WHY DO YOU THINK KRISHNAMACHARYA BECAME SUCH A LEGEND?
Pattabhi Jois: Because of his knowledge and wisdom.
WHAT WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING KRISHNAMACHARYA TAUGHT YOU?
Pattabhi Jois: When he left for Madras he told me, “Make this yoga method the work of your life.”
DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIS PERSONAL PRACTICE?
Pattabhi Jois: No, only that he was a master at what he was doing.
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR OWN PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH KRISHNAMACHARYA?
Pattabhi Jois: A normal guru-sisya[disciple] relationship
DID YOU EVER GET TO KNOW HIM PERSONALLY? WHAT KIND OF PERSON WAS HE?
Pattabhi Jois: Dangerous, but kind. Proud, but very knowledgeable
CAN WESTERNERS EVER DO JUSTICE TO THE GREAT HERITAGE OF YOGA?
Pattabhi Jois: Yoga is very good if it is taught with the correct method. Unfortunately, a lot of Westerners are thinking more about making money than about teaching this correct method. And I don’t know how
WHAT HAS THE WESTERN WORLD CONTRIBUTED TO YOGA?
Pattabhi Jois: Nobody can contribute anything to yoga, but yoga can contribute something to everybody.
HOW IS THE WESTERN MENTALITY DIFFERENT FROM THE INDIAN?
Pattabhi Jois: Indian people are used to following tradition, to having faith in the system, and to believing in moksha, or liberation. But for Western people, moksha is not very important. They practice yoga primarily for their health, which is okay. But to really understand the heritage of India, one must also understand its ancient traditions, which gave rise to our spiritual tradition. Some Westerners overlook this great heritage and have no idea what the roots of yoga are.
IS THERE ANY DANGER THAT THE YOGA TRADITION COULD BE DILUTED?
Pattabhi Jois: Yes, if people don’t appreciate and take care of the great teachings that have come down to us.
SOME PEOPLE SPEAK OF PHYSICAL YOGA, MENTAL YOGA, SPIRITUAL YOGA. IS THERE A DIFFERENCE?
Pattabhi Jois: Yoga is one. God is one. Yoga means sambandaha, which is atma manah samyogah, or knowing God inside you. But using it only for physical practice is no good, of no use—just a lot of sweating, pushing, and heavy breathing for nothing. The spiritual aspect, which is beyond the physical, is the purpose of yoga. When the nervous system is purified, when your mind rests in the atman [the Self], then you can experience the true greatness of yoga.
WHY IS YOGA SO BENEFICIAL FOR MANKIND?
Pattabhi Jois: Yoga is good for man because the physical body improves, the nervous system improves, the mind improves, the intellect improves—so, how can yoga not be good?
WHAT ARE YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS ON ALL THE MODERN SCHOOLS OF YOGA IN THE WEST TODAY?
Pattabhi Jois: Let other forms of yoga be there, I teach only Ashtanga yoga, which is real. I know that it is real and everybody who practices it correctly will come to know that it is real also. The essence of yoga is to reach oneness with God. The ego must be understood, contemplated, and released. If you only try to boost the ego, you will miss the greatest fruit of yoga.
IS IT OKAY TO CAPITALIZE ON YOGA? IS YOGA AS A BUSINESS ACCEPTABLE?
Pattabhi Jois: That is the way of Westerners. They are always thinking to make more money. Unfortunately, it is not good when the goal of yoga is money rather than God. Real yoga is not about money. If yoga comes your way, be happy about it. People ask me so many questions: “Guruji, what should I do about this? How should I do that”? I say, “Don’t take your mind other places. Think only of God, then do yoga.” Let things come. If you want to benefit, think only of God, dedicate all your actions to God, and whatever comes your way is a gift—is His gift to you.
WHAT ARE THE QUALITIES OF A GOOD YOGI?
Pattabhi Jois: Dedication to yoga and a steady faith in yoga. And a willingness to do hard work and to continuously think of and concentrate on yoga.
WHAT MAKES A GOOD YOGA TEACHER?
Pattabhi Jois: Primarily, you have to learn the practice properly, you have to know yoga properly, before you can start to teach. If you think, ‘I want to become a teacher,’ before you have a good understanding, that is not good. You need to be a student for many, many years. It is important to have a good teacher to guide you and then, when your teacher thinks you are ready, you can start to teach.
WHAT ARE THE CRITERIA TO BECOME A GOOD YOGA TEACHER?
Pattabhi Jois: As I said, be a dedicated student for many years before you even start to think about teaching
IS THERE AN ELEMENT IN YOGA THAT CAN NEVER BE TAUGHT?
Pattabhi Jois: Only your guru can truly guide you—only someone who has studied the path before you and is aware of all the dangers can truly direct you. And the blessing of the guru is very important too. Without the guru’s blessing, you cannot really progress as a student. And this blessing is to listen to the guru, to what the correct method is, and to have faith in him—to follow and let yourself be guided by him. This blessing cannot be explained. It can only be experienced with the energy and strengths that will flow from within you. This strength from within you will make you firmer, more secure, and stronger.
WHAT IS UNIQUE TO YOUR STYLE OF YOGA?
Pattabhi Jois: What is particular to Ashtanga yoga practice is what we call vinyasa, which brings together breathing with physical movement. Each posture is connected with a certain breathing sequence, which comes before and after it. This keeps the flow of energy through the spine open. It also safeguards against injury and prevents energy from stagnating in the body. Vinyasa purifies the body, the nervous system, and cultivates the proper energetic field in the body. It is essential to yoga, we believe, and gives people a direct inner experience of their potential. To feel the energy continually flowing through the spine is the effect of vinyasa. But there is nothing that comes instantly. One needs to practice this system for many years—a minimum of five to ten years—to begin to experience these deep subtle changes in the body.
HAVE YOUR TEACHING METHODS CHANGED OVER THE YEARS? DO YOU FOCUS ON THINGS NOW THAT YOU DIDN’T WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED?
Pattabhi Jois: No, they have not changed. They have remained the same the whole time. Our method from the beginning has been that a posture needs to be perfected before you move on to more difficult ones. Each posture works progressively to increase the energy level and the opening of the body.
WHAT IS THE BEST REMEDY FOR HELPING PEOPLE? DO YOU TREAT EVERYBODY EQUALLY?
Pattabhi Jois: Taking practice! And to make people aware of yama [the first limb of Ashtanga yoga] and niyama [the second limb of Ashtanga yoga], and of how to control their bodies—these are the best remedies. When they are aware, controlling the senses becomes easier. But, primarily, yama and niyamaare the best remedies for anybody with an interest in the practice.
WHAT IS THE MOST REWARDING ASPECT OF YOUR WORK?
Pattabhi Jois: It is to see the growth and development of students, and to experience the love and gratitude they have when they come here to Mysore, year after year. We see so many students who come from all over the world to study with us. Some of them have full-time jobs and get only four weeks vacation per year, but they choose to devote that time to coming here to practice with us. To see this dedication and to see the happiness in people—that is what is truly rewarding.
WHAT IS YOUR PERSONAL YOGA PRACTICE LIKE THESE DAYS?
Pattabhi Jois: I continue to practice pranayama and recite the Vedas for an hour and a half to two hours every day
WHAT IS THE MEANING OF SPIRITUALITY TO YOU?
Pattabhi Jois: Spirituality means energy and to meditate on that energy is spirituality. So, developing and having faith in this energy is spirituality. What the shastras tell me is what I believe, which is the Indian custom:
Tasmat shastram pramanam te karya akaryavyvasthitauJnatva shastravidhanoktam karma kartum iharhasi BG 16:24
[Therefore let the scriptures be your authority in ascertaining what ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing what has been prescribed by the scriptures, you should act in this manner.]
So, the sacred scriptures are the whole foundation of our spiritual tradition. Without them, we are left to our own impressions. But with the scriptures, we are given a guide to follow. In the absence of belief, we can never really lift the veil of our own ignorance and discover what lies beyond it. Thus spirituality is believing.
WHAT IS SPIRITUAL ABOUT THE PHYSICAL PRACTICE?
Pattabhi Jois: Behind the strength of the body, there is an energy that is spirituality, and that is what keeps us alive. To gain access to the spiritual, you need to understand the physical. The body is our temple and inside that temple is atman, and that is God
HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE PURUSA?
Pattabhi Jois: Purusa is light, the light that is atman, which is all and everything. Purusa is jiva [the individual soul], whereas prakriti[nature] is maya, or delusion. Due to the confusion that comes from living in the world
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| Mula-Prakriti from a 19th century Rajasthani painting |
DOES YOGA CULTIVATE AN UNDERSTANDING OF PURUSA?
Pattabhi Jois: Only indirectly. Directly, it is the vrittis [thought patterns] which we come to control by the practice of yoga. It is not the purusa, which is constant and always there, though the practice does give one a clear mind, which may lead to an awareness of It. The actual understanding being facilitated, however, is of the thought patterns, or the vrittis. How they operate, how they bind you, and how you can gradually learn to experience what lies beyond them—that is what we come to understand by the practice of yoga.
WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE YOGA SUTRA YOGA CHITTA VRITTI NIRODHA?
Pattabhi Jois: Patanjali’s definition is simple: “Yoga is the process of ending the definitions of the field of consciousness.” But to actually understand this in one’s being is of a wholly different order. To understand words and concepts is easy, but to let the experience of yoga penetrate deep into one’s heart, to realize fully what one is made of, and, finally, to establish the mind in the Self—these are very difficult.
Manushyanam sahasreshu kaschidyatati siddhayeYatatamapi siddhanaam kascinmam vetti tattvatah BG 7:3
[Among thousands of men, one perhaps struggles for perfection. Among thousands of those that struggle, maybe one becomes perfect, but among thousands of men that are perfect, perhaps one knowsMe in reality.]
HOW DOES YOUR SYSTEM FACILITATE THE EXPERIENCE OF YOGA?
Pattabhi Jois: To practice asanas and pranayama is to learn to control the body and the senses, so that the inner light can be experienced. That light is the same for the whole world. And it is possible for people to experience this light, their own Self, through correct yoga practice. It is something that happens through practice, though learning to control the mind is very difficult. Most important though is the practice. We must
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| Sri K Pattabhi Jois |
WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE YOGA SUTRA TADA DRASTUH SVARUPEAVASTHANAM?
Pattabhi Jois: The atman [individual soul; inner Self] is the same in all people, but we give a name and form to It according to the nature of our mind and sense organs. Taking yoga practice helps control the mind and sense organs so that awareness eventually goes inside, toward this atman. There are two types of yoga, external and internal. Yama, niyama, asana, and pranayama are external. Pratyahara, dharana, dhyana, and samadhi are internal. As you take practice, you come to see God inside. The Katha Upanisad tells this:
Paranci khani vyatrnat svayambhuhTasmat paran pasyati nantaratmanKasciddhirah Pratyagatmanam aiksatAvrtacaksur amrtatvam icchanKathopanisad 4.1
[The self-existent Lord afflicted the senses so that they go outward. Therefore, one sees outer things and not the inner Self. A discriminating man, desiring immortality, turns his eyes away (from sense objects) and then sees the indwelling Self.]
So, when the sense organs are controlled, you will come to see your true Self, that is atman.
IS GOD IMPORTANT TO A PHYSICAL PRACTICE? WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF THE YOGA SUTRA ISHVARAPRANIDHANAD VA?
Pattabhi Jois: The reason we do yoga is to become one with God and to realize Him in our hearts. You can lecture, you can talk about God, but when you practice correctly, you come to experience God inside. Some people start yoga and don’t even know of Him, don’t even want to know of Him. But for anyone who practices yoga correctly, the love of God will develop. And, after some time, a greater love for God will be theirs, whether they want it or not. It is true and that is why yoga is real. It develops inside you and helps you to realize the inner light of the Self.
*full article--> http://www.namarupa.org/magazine/nr03/downloads/NamaRupa_03_02.pdf
